What Do You Do with
a Kid Like This One?
A MiddleWeb Listserv conversation
Most educators will come up against a student whose misbehavior fails to
respond to conventional behavior modification interventions. Leighann turned
to her colleagues on the MiddleWeb Listserv for advice.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated with one of my students. I'll
call him Ken. Ken has fought more times that I can count. Ken is failing
every class (I think). Ken is also dragging down 4-5 other boys in my homeroom
who were once good, and now are also fighting and failing. We have called
mom, emailed mom, suspended Ken, given him a mentor (the Principal), sent
him to a conflict resolution program, etc. I've tried taking him aside to
talk with him, and correcting him in front of others. Nothing seems to help.
Yesterday he swore at a student and said he was going to hit him. I sent
him to his mentor, and then today, he came in late and proceeded to lift
up a girl's shirt (in the back, thank God).
I don't know of anything else we can do. He kept saying today as I wrote
him up that all I wanted to do was write him up. Not true, he just always
seems to do something bad all of the time. What do I do?
- Leighann
----------------------------------------
Deb Bova pointed Leighann to a practical tool that has worked for her.
One epiphany that I had a few years ago involved me using a form that
kids had to fill out themselves. I got tired of writing kids up and them
telling me that I loved to write them up. I felt if they did the crime they
should write the form. I had one form for supplies and for tardies as well.
As soon as the bad behavior started, I slid the form in front of him or
her... without a word, just pointed to it.
We had a lesson on this -- everyone got to practice a form. Sliding the
form in front of the kid interrupted the behavior; in order for me to consider
the explanation, he or she had to fill the entire explanation out. It was
like, Name, date, why you are given this form, how often has it happened
before, what can be done to change the behavior, what reason can you give
to convince me that this should not be a referral.
Another strategy that I have used with kids like this is to survey the class.
I mean, so often the kid thinks the other kids love their acting out and
generally, the kids are sick of it. I give everyone in the particular class,
including the offender, a piece of scrap paper and tell them this scenario:
DO NOT WRITE YOUR NAME ON THIS!
Then I ask the following questions:
1. Is there a problem in this classroom?
2. Are you a part of the problem?
3. Who are the people interfering with your learning or disrupting this
class on a regular basis; write the name or names.
4. What would you tell this person if you could (without your name being
provided) about how his or her behavior interferes with others learning
and personal space.
5. What measures should the teacher or school take to deal with this problem?
Remember; do not write your name on this paper.
I have used this for behavior or to get to the bottom of some situation
where kids want to speak but fear retribution. When I have used this with
discipline problems, I share the results with the kid and sometimes with
family. I always share it with administration. Usually, I share it privately
with the kid, but if needed, I review the findings, in front of the class.
It really works. Hope it helps you and yours. Sometimes reality bites.
- Deb Bova
--------------------------------------
Leighann expressed her gratitude for Deb's suggestions.
What a wonderful idea!!! I might try that tomorrow....
- Leighann
----------------------------------
Naomi suggested a number of things to consider when trying to make sense
of this complex student.
This sounds like a very unhappy young man. You have obviously tried
many things. I did not see that he has been involved with a counselor. Are
there any available in your school or community?
Also, I would keep anecdotal records -- time of day, subject, task, and
behavior. Is he the way he is with all adults, peers, in all classes, etc?
Is there a class or time of day when he is able to cooperate? The fact that
he is failing could mean that he is unable to do the work (for a variety
of reasons). And please do not forget a complete physical with vision and
hearing exams. At this age acting out could also be a sign of depression.
He should see a mental health professional.
Hope this helps. I have many Kens and it is a long struggle.
-Naomi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carol commented on the importance of looking for positive behaviors to
reinforce.
I am a Special Ed. teacher and have seen quite a few "Kens".
I also would like to suggest that perhaps this kid only feels success when
he gets attention and the only way he knows to get attention is by getting
in trouble. If possible, try to find something to praise before he gets
in trouble. Even if it is that he came into the room quietly, on time, or
has his supplies. Try not to tie it in with something inappropriate he did
before. You may have to do this a lot before you notice a change, but it
just might help. Good luck
- Carol
---------------------------------
Jan explained the use of "tokens" in behavior modification.
I have another suggestion for your "Ken". Spend some time
with him to find out what would be reinforcing to him (ex: - being allowed
to "buy" off an assignment, a Coke, free time, computer time,
a candy bar at lunch, a "Super" tray, time alone with an adult
in the building, lunch out with the principal, etc.) Then give him a "token"
- I have used a poker chip in the past - for each period that he completes
a lesson with appropriate behavior. Determine ahead of time (with the student)
how many tokens he would need to earn these privileges. You might want to
play up the idea that this is a special agreement between the two of you
- explain the concept of a contract.
Good luck!
- Jan
---------------------------------
Leighann provided additional background on her student.
Here is a little more background... "Ken" has a lot of ability
academically but spends too much time suspended or simply not doing the
work. I have given him a make up assignment (long range project) 3 or 4
times and he hasn't even tried!!! He is in a role model group sponsored
by the school.
He seems to do this in every class with the exception of math... but that
class does not meet one day a week because they go to computer class that
day... so she does not see him as much as we do. He is disrespectful to
almost everyone, and those he is not disrespectful to seem to be "snowed"...
he does things behind their backs (he has the principal snowed and he talks
about her making him leave early every day to get home so he can't fight
after school... seems to think nothing will really happen to him for real.)
Every day he does something in my room and wastes at least 15-20 min of
class while I write him up. The things he does have to be written up for
a referral per the handbook... what else can I do? This seems so hopeless.
- Leighann
----------------------------------
Bev reminded readers of the importance of involving a support community
when dealing with challenging students.
I'm trying to remember if you made parent contact? Are the school nurse
and/or counselor alerted? What about team recommendations to whatever resources
the school can provide (do you have a relationship with local mental health
providers?). I recognize your Ken--he goes by a different name in my classes--I
had a sub Thursday, a wonderful woman who is recently arrived home-girl
retired from teaching in the inner-city Cincinnati schools. She left me
a note that read: "XX seems seriously disturbed. Please refer him for
testing to get him some help!"
This was after fewer than 45 minutes since she had security remove him and
two others.
- Bev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leighann responded to Bev's posting.
We have made parental contact and mom has been up several times. Doesn't
seem to affect Ken at all. The nurse is alerted due to him having a funny
smell... someone thought he was doing drugs. :( I am just feeling so inadequate
these days.... feels like I'm not helping anyone.
- Leighann
------------------------------
Avis wondered if the misbehavior could be connected to academic difficulties.
Have been reading most of the thread on this student, as these are the students
that make me wonder what makes them the way the other and with most of them
we may never know.
You said he was academically able to do his work. Do you know this according
to test scores or by the work he has handed in if any.
Since our push has been reading and math...I am wondering if have you ever
had time to have him read to you individually? Maybe he is reading below
grade level and is a good pretender? I may have missed some of the info
posted. (sorry if I did). Is he a newer student?
Does it make any difference where he sits?
-Avis
---------------------------------------------------------
Leighann commented on Ken's academic abilities.
Test scores are ok, and the work he does is good. He is an excellent
reader... he will read aloud when asked to and does well. He's been at my
school all year and within the last 2 months his behavior has really deteriorated.
Doesn't seem to matter where he sits. See why I'm at a loss!
- Leighann
--------------------------------------------------------------
Avis asked further questions.
So now that we have ruled out academics as a problem. One would ask
- what has happened in the last 2 months to make such a drastic change.
I think you mentioned that there was no response from the parents. So are
there family problems.... (talk of a divorce) one of them slips and makes
a bad mistake in some way? Or is some one blaming something on him?
Can you recommend him for an anger management class and maybe they can ferret
out what is wrong?
How about your counselor... would they be a strong enough person to find
out what is happening? If he was ok until 2 months ago... sounds like he
is striking out for some reason. Are there any girl problems at his young
age?
- Avis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellen, one of Ken's former teachers, provided additional background.
I had Leighann's "Ken" in my homeroom last year for sixth
grade. We experienced a lower level of those same problems -- refusal to
cooperate, smoking a dried up joint while cutting class, failing grades
across the board... We have referred him to the counselor, placed him in
an Americorps conflict resolution program, held endless conferences with
his parent...all that did not work. He was pretty good for me, but I still
had some problems; he was pretty sneaky about what he was doing.
He is academically on target. He is an example of a student who can do,
but is choosing alternative behavior that is more attractive to him. This
is my personal thought--and maybe someone on the list can suggest a way
to deal with him--I personally believe that he is enjoying the immense power
and attention he is receiving because of what is going on.
He does something, and everyone jumps- his mom, the principal, his teachers,
and his classmates...EVERYONE. He has a reputation for being unmanageable.
To add to that, I have noticed he has become a lot more active in his gang.
He is gaining a reputation for being "hard". Why should he value
school? He has power and money and a reputation without doing well in school.
Everyone is paying attention to HIM.
Mind you, he makes it impossible NOT to pay attention to him. When he is
shouting profanities, lifting up girls' shirts, and smoking pot on campus
while going AWOL, how can you ignore him? He is very SMART. He is getting
exactly what he wants.
My one idea was for his seventh grade teachers to assign him a challenging
integrated project or projects that meet the standards they are currently
covering and have him take class on an independent study basis with the
librarian. The librarian is certified across all content areas, and she
taught for many years. He wouldn't be allowed to leave the library--wouldn't
really need to. I'm thinking the attention he's getting needs to be siphoned
off. Am I crazy?
Ken is on the road to an early death. He is challenging and really makes
all of us want to scream in frustration, but he IS a child who has so much
potential in the world. We just really aren't equipped with the staff to
service his special case.
- Ellen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joanne agreed with Ellen's suggestion.
First, Leighann, you have my complete sympathy. One of my students is
similar to Ken, but on a lower level. He craves the attention he gets and
knows exactly what he is doing. Fortunately, writing him up (referral) works
for a while.
Ellen's idea of an independent study project in the library sounds like
a good one to try. He will undoubtedly find ways to get attention and will
try to drive the librarian crazy, but maybe a one-on-one relationship with
her without the audience of classmates, et al. may help. But he sure sounds
like a candidate for being removed from the classroom setting since he continually
proves he is not interested in being a contributing member of the group.
For what it's worth,
- Joanne
------------------------
Trish, a middle school librarian, shared her perspective.
Ellen has made a great suggestion by having the student work on an independent
project with the assistance of the librarian. However, there are many times
a librarian does not have time to work independently with a student as classes
are constantly using the library for research and need the help of the librarian
for that.
It just so happens that I have been asked to do just what Ellen mentioned-
it did not work. The minute a student came to the library to check out a
book or use the computer the student I was helping's behavior was totally
inappropriate. It got to the point, as I was asked to do this more than
once, that the library became known as a place to go when one misbehaves.
Although I am willing to help anyone, I do not appreciate being known as
a place to go when students misbehave and I can see this happening in the
mentioned situation.
If a student is sent to the library for the purposes of independent study
and needs the librarian to help there are many factors for consideration.
One would be whether the librarian has a place to help the students that
is out of the mainstream such as a study room. Second the librarian would
need coverage as the student was being helped. Third a plan has to be developed
if the student should act inappropriately. These are just a few.
If an independent study was decided for the student I feel the student should
work in the guidance office and be helped in two areas, that of assignment
completion and counseling. The role of the librarian would be to help the
student by providing materials, which will help him be successful.
In our district we have an alternative school where students attend who
don't work up to their academic ability. This is in place of the regular
school, which they do attend for their PE period only. Does "Ken"
have this available to him?
- Trish
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<< he has the principal snowed >>
Does the principal have any strategies????? Could he have an Individualized
plan that includes some time in class, some time with the principal for
completing work, etc. I understand your frustration.
But keep in mind that this young man cannot be happy, even when he is deceiving
people. Something is bugging him and making him miserable.
- Naomi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Avis responded to Ellen's suggestions and shared an experience from her
classroom.
Ellen...that would to me be a great way of handling it... taking him
out of the loop. Our former ED teacher used a plan where they had to earn
their way back into any class. That included getting work done, and behaving.
She called it leveling and each level had to be maintained for so many days
before moving up one level. If they messed up they lost points and dropped
back to other level. This included PE, Music and field trips.
I had a hard-core girl who was put in my room, who would not listen to anything
I said. So I put her on a leveling program and she had to earn her way
back in with the class. For her it worked. She was in a group home and
I made a deal with her that if she could stay on the top level with her
behavior I would treat her to a hairstyle. She made it. I think we had
a little bond but I heard she skipped out of the home and slept at a boy
friends house- and yes this was a 6th grader. I guess her dad abused her
in all ways, which is why she was so messed up.
- Avis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joanne agreed with Trish.
You are right, of course, about the librarian being busy with classes
that come into the library, not to mention the myriad other jobs, big and
small, you are called upon to do. My brain was already asleep when I replied
last night. I can just see a student like Ken having a whole new audience
to play to and disrupt, as classes come to the library for research. As
you said, if there was a separate study room, perhaps it would be possible,
IF it is isolation that he needs.
Unfortunately, with so many of these troubled and troubling students, a
teacher or a school can't "fix" everything. Avis' student is an
example - group home, abused childhood. There are no easy fixes, especially
when we have them for such a limited time. And, Leighann, we can't beat
ourselves up, either. We do what we can do. (Now to take that advice myself.)
- Joanne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leighann thanked MiddleWeb readers for their useful suggestions.
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. Our district has an alternative
school but it seems like no one is being transferred, and I fear for what
Ken may do in the future. All I can do is hang in there. Regarding mom,
it seems she cares but is just as lost as we are. :(
- Leighann
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Marsha explained a youth intervention program that is available to troubled
young people in her community.
I've been reading the discussion with great interest and have been thinking
it through my own experience to see what fits. In addition to all the great
suggestions, I would also throw another one into the arena for consideration.
When we face a sudden change in a student and the source of the problem
isn't clear, our counseling department has access to something called Youth
Friends. These are volunteers from the business community who have agreed
to act as mentor/role models for our struggling students. I think it's a
formalized program that goes well beyond our district, so your district
may have something similar that could help you out.
The unique part of this program is that the business community sees the
benefit of keeping students in school and working hard. There are several
pretty large companies that participate. For example, Sprint's headquarters
is based inside our district. They actually allow their employees to have
time off during the workday to volunteer in the schools. Youth Friends is
the vehicle we use. A volunteer is partnered with a student and they do
all the things you'd expect --- each lunch together, sometimes work on HW,
shoot baskets down in the gym or just hang out and talk. This happens during
the school day.
Occasionally I've seen the volunteer take extra time off to come over and
watch their student present a project in class or do a performance.
I know it won't solve the daily classroom problem immediately. But it does
give one-on-one attention to students who confound us. Often times, "Youth
Friends" are able to show students such a positive example that they're
willing to trust adults a bit more. They tell us what is wrong with them,
so we can help. These volunteers aren't counselors but they have some kind
of training about mentorship. To be honest, I really don't know. But it
seems to help students during their time of personal emotional chaos.
I didn't know it even existed. I wish I had because I struggled along with
some students that could have used the help. But once I learned about it,
I used it four or five times with great success. Even if the student's behavior
didn't improve, I knew they knew I cared enough to try and find some help
for them. Having lost half a dozen students to suicide in our school over
the past ten years, I think that is sometimes the difference between life
and death --- although I wish it would show in improved classroom behavior.
If you have such a program or something that's similar with a different
name, it has helped my troubled students in the past. Especially when the
kiddo is going through a divorce, or a sibling has been arrested or something
similar. At this time their behavior decays and a little extra TLC goes
a long way.
- Marsha
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cathy finished this helpful discussion string of by asking Leighann to
keep MiddleWeb readers posted concerning Ken's progress.
Please let us all know how things work out with Ken and if you find
any way of changing his attitude and behavior. I for one have had a few
Kens in my time, and I know of another one that I'll be getting next year.
In our small K-8 school (one class per grade) all grades are in self-contained
classes. That means his teacher has to put up with his distractions all
day. Worse, his classmates have to put up with his behavior every year.
Sometimes I wonder whatever happened to the good students' rights to an
education.
If you find a solution, ple-e-e-a-ase share your secret.
- Cathy
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