Tracy introduced a topic that prompted a flurry of responses from
MiddleWeb readers.
In an effort to use grades to more accurately describe students' abilities
(as mandated by the rules of the country), our middle school teachers will
soon attempt to align standards for grading classroom participation.
Presently, such activity and attitudes affect the final average by 10%,
but each teacher - even on the same teams - has his/her own way of evaluating
this category. We are interested in incorporating higher expectations for
independence, initiative, responsibility and organization according to each
grade level.
I am interested to know if any of you have tried true participation guidelines
AND if any of your schools incorporate this as a school-wide policy?
- Tracy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill described the marking system that used in his middle school classes.
We do not have a school wide policy. Class participation percentage
for me is 35% for the 6th grade, 30% for the 7th grade, 25% for the 8th
grade, and 40% in the 9th grade. The kids in my school are upgraded through
5th grade, and this approach means quizzes and tests in my classes have
relatively little weight the first year, but gain in significance year by
year. Then in 9th grade, the kids do literature, there's much less written
homework, and the class participation grade goes up as a result.
I have each class set group goals at the beginning of the year, and tie
class participation to those goals. Keep focused on the goals and you get
a (relatively easy) A. Stray from those goals, and your class participation
grade for the day goes down 10 points. Earn an "F" in class participation
for the day and I call your parents. Some parents have asked me to notify
them at the "D" level as well. The system seems to work fairly
well for most kids, though admittedly not for all.
I teach French and Rock Band, though the latter is an upgraded elective.
Actually, I see way better class participation in Rock Band, where they
choose to be there because they enjoy it and know we depend on their contribution,
than in French, not that I don't try to make it fun and make it clear everyone
is an important part of the class.
- Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer commented on Bill's posting.
You have an elective titled Rock Band? My boys and my husband would
have been so excited if they had this choice. There was relatively nothing
that excited my boys or my husband when they were in school. This is I feel
a step in the right direction. After reading Carol Ann Tomlinson's book
How To Differentiate Instruction in Mixed-Ability Classrooms and
hearing Dr. Mel Levine on Oprah, I realize we really need to revamp our
high schools. Harvey Daniels has a seminar in Wisconsin I think and one
of their strands is Rethinking High Schools; I couldn't agree more. We need
some serious work.
- Jennifer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill noted the significance of non-traditional course work for students
with non-academic leanings.
Thanks for the encouragement, Jennifer! There do seem to be number of
kids for whom rock band gives them a much-needed spot to really shine as
well as a place to belong. That's not just true of boys either - I've been
teaching rock band at all-girls Stoneleigh-Burnham since 1987, and there's
always at least one person who is so good on stage she makes you cry - and
finds traditional academic work way frustrating. Pine Cobble's band performed
the Friday before our break (which ends today - eep), and one of the teachers
said one of the best parts was watching the row of girls (we have six girl
singers) rock out.
- Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deb wondered about the variance in how educators may define "participation".
While reading this "participation strand" I found myself wondering
about the ways we define participation. Do you give credit for giving the
right answer, or is your definition broader? I tried to stir up questioning
by giving credit for asking questions. If we really value student engagement,
I think we need to model different ways of questioning and examining situations.
How do you promote these behaviors in your classes?
- Deb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris, now a principal, explained how he approached an attitude and participation
grade in his classes.
When I taught I had something called an "attitude and participation
grade". It counted as one test grade. What seemed to work the best
for kids was that they started out with a 100 on their attitude and participation
grade. I explained that this was the easiest test they would ever get an
"A" on as all they needed to do was show up on time prepared to
learn and they would keep their 100 points. It worked very well, most kids
kept an A average. Some kids even showed up early to class!
A caution. I shared this with a veteran high school teacher. After one day
he came to me and asked what I did if a student lost all their points in
the first day. It seems he used this strategy to publicly humiliate a student
in class. Anyway, it reminded me to always grade privately.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis offered a suggestion.
Chris - While I don't use the participation grade you use, can I suggest
that when passing the idea on to others in future you might want to incorporate
"a period of grace" notion in your advice to make it a little
teacher proof.
At every new term or new rule, I tell my students that there will be a period
of grace for a week or so while we all adjust e.g. after the break unless
there are gross breaches. During that period I gently remind students who
transgress that this week all that will happen is a gentle reminder. Next
week and for the rest of the term that action will incur an immediate penalty
no ifs or buts. I find this very effective and also relationship building
because in the period of grace week we can have a little laugh about the
situation.
If I recall correctly I think Glasser proposed this type of action. He also
argued that the only grades that should be given were "As" and
"Bs".
- Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris agreed with Dennis.
A good idea Dennis! We did that when we instituted our discipline rubric
for bullying this past year. We had home base teachers review it with students,
then we gave everyone a week to get used to it, then the staff began implementing
it. It's still working well.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul shared his perspective on using a participation grade.
I am going to add something here that might sound a little stuck-up
again...but here it goes...
I don't think participation should be graded. I never want my students to
answer a question, make a comment, etc., just to get a grade. If the learning
environment is safe and engaging, each student will participate at a level
in which they feel comfortable. When I have a "quiet" class/student
or a "rude" class/student I examine what I can do differently
to engage that person and try different approaches. Most teachers (based
on my limited Q&A research ; )) were the type of students that participated
a lot in class.
They don't understand the quiet kid and understand that some kids just do
not like to talk a lot in class. This is OK! This type of student should
not be de-graded because of their personality. They also should not be bribed/forced
into participating because of fear of losing points. As one of those students,
I was instantly turned off to any teacher that announced a participation
grade on the first day of class. I feel some kids brains are saying, "if
you want to hear my thoughts, all you have to do is make me feel safe and
interest me!"
Try to find any research that proves that grades for performance improves
performance for a period longer than a year -- trading grades for participation
will just eventually decrease quality participation. Proven by research
in schools, proven by research in factories. I just want to add, that I
really, really, really, hope that no one that posted previously is offended
by my post. That is not my intention. Sometimes when I feel strongly about
something I end up expressing my opinion in a "me right you wrong"
sort-of-way. That is not my intention.
- Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis added to his previous posting.
Clarification:
The action Glasser proposed was the 100% notion you've posted, not the grace
idea.
- Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill explained how he dealt with the shy or unsure students in his class.
First of all - no offense taken, Paul! Your posting raises questions
that need to be raised. My answers also relate to the questions Deb asked.
For the record, though, I was the quiet type myself. It wasn't until my
second year of grad school that I really felt comfortable expressing my
opinions (translation: that I had sufficient confidence to think my ideas
might be worth expressing). So I can relate to, and (I hope!) support, the
quiet kids.
For them, though, there are some things you can do. As background, I must
concede the size of my school helps a lot - with only 10-15 kids per grade
and 6-11 kids per French class, they know each other extremely well. That
vastly increases the comfort level right there, even for kids who might
be quiet in another context. Increasing wait time before calling on people
- moving around the classroom and calling on everyone in some sort of sequence
for certain kinds of activities - doing pair or other group work - all of
this helps make sure the quiet kids have a strong voice too.
I also make it clear - and hopefully my behavior backs this up p; that
participation is not about getting it right, but only about keeping the
class moving forward. Got a question? Good! Ask it. Try out an answer that
doesn't quite make it? Hey, you tried. I've been known, on many occasions,
to say "That was a *good* wrong answer." or words to that effect.
I also try to openly recognize that participating in class varies day to
day for any individual person, but over time averages out. I tell them I
believe that sitting and listening to every word being said is a form of
class participation. I try to be as non-threatening as possible (and, considering
one of the 8th graders once called me "the most non-offensive person
I've ever met," I probably succeed).
I absolutely agree that kids need to feel safe and need to be interested,
and I would like to add that they needed to feel we are interested in them
as well. That can be done, I would argue, entirely apart from any grading
policy. Indeed, one could argue a grading policy is little more than meaningless
words on paper without teaching which backs it up, complements it and makes
it work.
Honestly, I hate grading in the first place. Since I have to grade, though,
I figure better to grade everything. Some kids are good at homework, some
at class discussions, some at creative work, some at paper-and-pencil quizzes
and tests. I'd rather give everybody credit for what they're good at. Also,
I figure 80% of the time they spend on French (I hope!) is spent in class
and that should count for something.
All this explanation doesn't mean you haven't shaken me up. But the thought
of abandoning what is for most of my students their strongest grade (the
only exceptions being Sarah, Leland and Emily, who have A+ quiz averages)
is a scary one. For now, while putting a lot of time into thinking it over,
I'm going to stick with grading class participation.
- Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deb voiced several questions about the value of using extrinsic rewards
at the beginning of the year.
Paul shared concerns about participation for points or grades vs. intrinsic
motivation and respect for different personality types and learning styles...
I agonize over the very points Paul has raised and confess that I vacillate
about these issues. I have found that when I make it "cool" to
participate by offering extrinsic motivation, more kids get engaged, especially
early in the year. Later, after the kids and I are in sync, I generally
don't keep track of the points and they don't ask about it. So my question
is, is it wrong to use extrinsic rewards to get the ball rolling, to make
being "brainy" acceptable at first? I really worry about this
stuff. I've read Alfie Kohn and felt guilty, but I've also faced 310 kids
a week and the need to connect quickly or die waiting for another voice,
besides my own, to be heard.
How does this work in the real world of your classrooms?
- Deb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis offered more response to Paul's posting.
Paul wrote: "I don't think participation should be graded. I never
want my students to answer a question, make a comment, etc., just to get
a grade. If the learning environment is safe and engaging, each student
will participate at a level in which they feel comfortable. When I have
a 'quiet' class/student or a 'rude' class/student I examine what I can do
differently to engage that person and try different approaches."
Yes that's true. I want my students to feel comfortable about doing math,
science, and a whole range of other activities. If the students aren't successful
then they need assistance. Planned activities with recognizable outcomes
are issues that need to be addressed for all material to be evaluated. For
example, what is a quiet student as compared to student who has a quiet
personality? For that matter what is a rude student? I have posted examples
of "Y" and "T" charts that show how you can put actions
to certain behaviors [the information is developed with improvisations along
the lines of Chick Moorman and Spencer Kagan]
http://tazdevil.curvedspaces.com/TeachingResources.htm
Of course, the main idea would be to promote the positive aspects of Participation
rather than the negatives. For those who have either of your problems then
a management process similar to the one shown in the management booklet
on the same page [above] would be needed for the students having difficulty
- this is a process of identifying what the positive behaviors are.
Paul wrote: "Most teachers (based on my limited Q&A research) were
the type of students that participated a lot in class. They don't understand
the quiet kid and understand that some kids just do not like to talk a lot
in class. This is OK! This type of student should not be de-graded because
of their personality."
That's a personal opinion. I think that teachers would come from a normal
population range. The only qualification I'd put on this is in my experience
[Australian] the majority are female so the males may not exhibit normal
population attributes [that's a worrying thought!]
Paul wrote: "They also should not be bribed/forced into participating
because of fear of losing points. As one of those students, I was instantly
turned off to any teacher that announced a participation grade on the first
day of class. I feel some kids brains are saying 'If you want to hear my
thoughts, all you have to do is make me feel safe and interest me!'"
You're right. That's exactly what a teacher needs to do - make all students
feel safe and interest them - in the context of imposed state assessment.
I would think that parents/caregivers would not be very accepting of ...
well your child is quiet and I really don't know whether they didn't grasp
what we were doing until the p & p test or whether it's an intuitive
thing, etc. And what's the difference between rude and precocious?
Couldn't agree more that bribes/ rewards have very limited impact. For example
one positive method I have in my classes is that I show students arrange
of stamps I have available to them and me. I inform them I don't give them
out. I am happy to negotiate with them if they feel they have done work
that should be recognized.
The only relevant criterion is that it is above average identifiable work
or effort or combination of these on their part. Not some other student
in the class or school.
Paul wrote: "Try to find any research that proves that grades for performance
improves performance for a period longer than a year -- trading grades for
participation will just eventually decrease quality participation."
The evidence I collect is usually made up of several descriptors in the
form of student self evaluation, my notes and evaluation material. Next
time I do pre and post evaluation I'll attempt to get permission to publish
the data.
Paul wrote: "Proven by research in schools, proven by research in factories.
I just want to add, that I really, really, really, hope that no one that
posted previously is offended by my post. That is not my intention. Sometimes
when I feel strongly about something I end up expressing my opinion in a
"me right you wrong" sort-of-way. That is not my intention."
Feel strongly. Be prepared to justify your position or review your practices
- that's what real growth is about. Good luck
- Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris commented on how his approach to a participation grade played out
in classroom life.
I think, as with many situations there's a balance to be struck, and
a dynamic balance at that. By that I mean that different things motivate
different people at different times. There's a lot to what Alfie Kohn says.
There's also a lot to what Skinner and Pavlov said. Few of us work for free
- there are a lot of unhappy rich folks. But not many of us would work harder
for less money or satisfaction.
Just a side note. Alfie recently used the ultimate extrinsic motivator when
he was uninvited as a speaker at an educational conference on standards.
He sued the organizers rather than relying on their natural, intrinsic desire
to listen to reason. There's a balance here...somewhere.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elisha felt that a participation grade was imperative in a foreign languages
classroom.
I would have to say that in the case of a foreign language classroom,
it is almost a necessity to grade on participation, because one of the goals
of teaching a foreign language is to learn communication, pronunciation,
and speaking abilities. Participation in the classroom is one way for us
as teachers to evaluate that aspect of the curriculum. It also provides
the students with an opportunity to use the language and practice the language.
In other disciplines, however; participation might not be as important
- Elisha
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LeeAnn shared how a participation grade worked in her classroom environment.
My team put a system into place that we like. It sounds complicated
so I won't go into great detail, but it is basically a responsibility policy
and it encompasses hall and bathroom passes, not coming to class prepared,
etc. We keep track of the "infractions" on index cards in one
classroom--teachers update them at team meetings. At the end of the marking
period the students gain or lose percentage points depending on the number
of "infractions".
When we see chronic problems developing, we can pull those students into
team meetings and see what is going on. What I like about it is that it
is very similar to the system that is in place at the company where my husband
is a manager, so I can show the kids how this policy is helping them to
develop responsible behaviors that are necessary in the work place. It is
amazing sometimes the similarities in "behavior" problems that
I face in my students and my husband faces in his employees.
- LeeAnn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne offered a few questions.
I've come in a bit late to the discussion on whether to include participation
as a part of a student's grade, and I have a couple of questions.
Should grades indicate how well students could meet academic standards?
(1) If yes, then would a "performance" grade be misleading? (2)
If no, then how DO you indicate how well students meet academic standards?
This is a question teachers struggle with this daily!
- Anne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris answered Anne's questions.
I'm not sure I understand the question clearly. I think of academic
performance as usually being measured holistically. It's the combination
of objective and subjective, the science and art of teaching. When I built
"attitude, effort, and participation" into the grading structure
of my classes I decided these things were in addition to the purely academic
measures based on content and specific skills relating to content.
I explained it to the students as being analogous to expectations in the
workplace, maybe. We need to show up for work, be need to arrive in a timely
manner, ready to be productive, and with the necessary tools to accomplish
the work we need to do. It's not a major part of the grading, but it isn't
something to be ignored either.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellen responded to Anne's posting.
Boy, you've really hit on something I've been thinking a lot about it
this week. How do we *really* measure and reflect what a student has learned?
Streamlining/normalizing grading practices (scales, criteria, etc.) alone
won't do it...there is still too much room for differing of interpretations,
etc.
I think the best we might hope for are school wide grading standards correlated
to content standards...and that will only happen after faculties come together
to discuss and discuss and reflect and revise to come to a consensus about
how standards are met.
I think a reporting system that directly addresses each standard covered
and the degree to which the student has met the standard is an important
step, however, I am wondering how overwhelming it would be to have to do
that for 100+ students--effectively and honestly at any rate. I am thinking
there would have to be a real change in numbers to do this very well...
- Ellen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michelle shared some interesting information.
Great questions, Anne! At BCMS, when we found ourselves not improving
according to state standards as quickly as we should, we had to take a critical
look at our practices. One of the things the state advisors asked us to
do was to compare the number of A's and B's with the number of "proficient"
scores on the test. I wasn't sure where they were going at the time, but
now I understand that when we give a kid an A for performance in the class
on the grade card, that same kid should be scoring proficient, according
to scoring guides on our written assessments in the content areas.
In many cases they were not. We had to ratchet up our expectations, and
we had to align our grading scale with those higher expectations. All this
said, when we did this, it also helped us realize more that many students
do need extra time outside of the school day and a variety of supports to
be able to accomplish those standards.
Just food for thought!
- Michelle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naomi pointed out the importance of students understanding that learning
is a participatory activity.
Someone else said they hated grading anyway (Was it Bill?) and that's
how I feel. I find that some kids are happy just to pass. A 65 is just fine
for them. Others will quibble for one or two points.
The bottom line is that we want kids to know how to learn and learning is
a participatory activity.
For example, in reading workshop I ask my teachers to give a great deal
of credit for students reading regularly during workshop. Some of the kids
are struggling readers, but their effort is just wonderful. They are trying
to implement the strategies, they share after reading, they conference with
the teachers. How frustrating it would be to do all that and then get a
failing grade because they are struggling readers. I have found that struggling
learners who get credit for participation improve academically. Being judged
solely by test scores and similar numbers is demoralizing.
- Naomi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lori explained how she implemented participation grades in her class.
Part of my grade is a participation grade and just by being in their
seat on time with all necessary materials they get all their points. Fifty-a-day.
Anyway, The students are rarely late and even less often in class without
needed books and a pencil and paper because that fifty is for some the points
that keep them passing.
- Lori
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis offered some thought-provoking thoughts.
I'm a little confused about the post and the reference to holistic evaluation
[Chris Toy] and subsequent posts about identifying student willingness to
participate.
If a teacher is applying their science of teaching to a subject area under
a specific learning area say mathematics and a measurement activity then
if I was evaluating something holistically I would be considering the cognitive,
psychomotor and affective domains. And there is a lot more to the affective
domain then participation, positive attitude and attendance.
I recognize that education "outsiders" and parents traditionally
have a higher interest in the academic range, which usually aligns with
the cognitive issues [but not exclusively.] It does not mean that teachers
applying their skill should not measure all -holistically - events in the
students learning regime.
At question would be how the relative weighting is placed in the context
of the demand made by external forces - I presume this is the ratcheting
up or down referred to by Michelle Pedigo.
Indeed I think it's about time that teachers got this message across to
our students, parents and community. And that message is while teachers
assist students in their course to becoming robust citizens and life long
learners, the only thing the bean counters are really interested in are
the academics - unless of course they are looking for promotional picture
in the media, then working wonderfully and asking questions is great aspect
to comment on and win them brownie points.
- Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick explained how his school connected the participation grade to a
citizenship grade.
At our site, participation is part of the student's citizenship grade.
A teacher may decide to use participation as a portion of their grading,
but it varies from teacher to teacher. If you are interested, you can check
out our grading and citizenship guidelines at our school's website:
http://marston.sandi.net/handbook/main.html
It's good to be back,
- Rick
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne agreed with Rick.
Rick, I took a look at your citizenship grading standards, and they
look right on target to me! I believe it's critical to recognize good behaviors,
habits, and attitudes in students, and this is a great way to do that!
- Anne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill shared some thoughts concerning report cards.
I wrote a (probably too long) response this morning, and then decided
to sit on it before sending it. Reading over the solid responses, which
have since come in, I think the following paragraph is the only one, which
might still be helpful....
I'd like to see report card format change radically. I guess (?) we still
need single grades for academic transcripts, or so everybody who works in
college admissions tells me. To what degree middle school teaching should
be driven by college-level expectations is yet another discussion.
Anyway, the art teacher in my school has a sort of homegrown chart system
for each skill her students are working on and how well they are progressing
toward mastery of each skill, and that would seem to make a lot of sense
for all classes. Going even beyond that sort of skill-based report card,
why couldn't the kids' progress toward meeting individual goals become part
of the report card as well? Say there was space for three individual goals,
with a chart for noting progress. The advisor comment could then explain
what the three goals were, and possibly discuss how the student (with or
without advisor help) arrived at those particular self-evaluations for each
goal.
- Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris wondered if a participation grade should affect whether a student
gets on the honor role.
To be a bit picky, the inclusion of "personal conduct", in
my opinion includes effort, attitude, participation, and other more subjective
aspects of "achievement. This would seem to weaken Stiggin's statement
that we should use "uncontaminated" academic measures.
This reminds me of a very important discussion I had with our school board
a number of years ago over the middle school's honor roll. Setting aside
the debate about whether there should even be an honor roll for a moment,
the discussion I had with the board was whether our effort and behavior
marks should affect whether students make the honor roll. At the high school
only the letter grade counts for determining honors. At the middle school
we include all three marks, academic, behavior, and effort. I argued that
all three should count because it is important to value all three aspects
of a child's development, a more holistic view perhaps.
As someone who has to hire and evaluate adults, discipline children, and
work with parents, I can tell you that 90% of the most difficult problems
I face stem from standards of personal conduct, attitude, effort, behavior,
and interpersonal issues. As an educator working in a school, I can place
academic achievement first and foremost, but I cannot ignore the rest. Look
around, listen to the news, read the papers, there are lot of academically
accomplished people behaving badly. Yes, it a bit extreme I know, but I
think I'm right.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris added a comment about "bean counters".
I think what I'm trying to say is that educators may need to take the
bean counters interests into consideration when they assess students, but
we do not have to narrow our focus simply because the bean counters' focus
is narrow.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deb responded to Chris' comments.
I agree-- because in reality, the bean counters will ultimately employ
these students, and their needs will economically (the needs of the bean
counters) impinge on the lives of those in our teaching. In Indiana, our
standards are real. So many teachers have clung to subject and verb and
the perfect tense worksheets and worried about how to fit in grammar exercises
when they are to be teaching writing when the bean counters need kids who
can write literate memos, essays, papers, and communiqués.
They need kids who can solve problems-- work in the real world does not
provide worksheets...it asks for thinking and writing, and they need kids
who can formulate original thinking... to make the quantum leap in learning.
If I analyze the standards, and if I teach to them, I am preparing kids
for the real world... so in the end, if my unit on Jurassic Park has to
go, it just has to go.
- Deb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris responded to the suggestion that participation grades may be the very
thing that allows some students to pass a class.
This works for me as a principal. At least half of the battle is showing
up on time prepared to learn. If teachers have taught students the benefits
of good work habits, can-do attitudes, teamwork, organization, critical
thinking, and a host of other affective skills IN THE CONTEXT OF strong
academic skills and content they will all be winners in life. (I bet everyone's
standards say something about being a responsible and involved citizen)
That's a quote from Maine's Learning Results.
In my opinion the academics are the means to the ends, not to be confused
with the ultimate goal....successful and fulfilled adulthood in the 21st
century. (another quote from the Maine Learning Results)
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joanne suggested that participation grades might need to be culturally
appropriate.
At the risk of this being a bit late of an addition to the participation
grade discussion...here's one area many of us need to be aware of: our immigrant
students for whom participating in class is not the cultural norm.
I have many Asian students and the first generation ones, without exception,
sits quietly, drinking it all in, but never raising their hand or participating.
I have been spending this week of my Spring Break watching my last (hoorah)
30 hours of video for my CLAD (Crosscultural, Language, and Academic Development)
certification. Over and over it is emphasized how teachers of second language
learners MUST be sensitive to their students differing cultures and norms.
In most Asian countries, learning is a passive activity where the teacher
lectures and the students take notes and learn. In those cultures, it is
considered rude to speak out in class. Also, if the student answers incorrectly,
he loses face himself (highly embarrassing) as well as causing the teacher
to lose face, since the implication is also that the teacher must not have
taught the material well enough for the student to know the answer. Since
the teacher is highly regarded, one must never cause
him/her to lose face.
We must SLOWLY help these students adapt to our American system of cooperative
learning, calling on students for answers, etc.
Just another view of something we Americans take for granted.
- Joanne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris proposed that educators would be doing a disservice if they do
not move Asian students beyond their non-participatory leaning.
Speaking as an Asian, I agree that not all cultures may look at participation
and attitude in the same way. That being said, I think it is important to
remember that we do minority children a disservice if we don't prepare them
for the culture they live in and will eventually draw their livelihoods
from.
When I taught I recognized that a positive attitude and engagement or participation
might not look the same for all children. I started the students off with
100 points, thus they had to actively display negative attitudes or actively
disengage in order to lose points. I always spoke privately with students
if I was preparing to deduct points.
IF the student could convince me they were, in fact, engaged and absorbing
the lesson....without detracting from other students' learning, I would
not deduct the points. So a quiet, reserved student, who worked hard could
easily retain their full participation and attitude score. As long as they
are drinking it in, things are fine. Of course, by the end of the course,
I'd have them laughing and joking with the rest of the natives...or at least
smiling.
- Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joanne agreed with Chris.
I totally agree, Chris, and I'm so glad you made the point of the "right"
way to deduct points, and how it may take the full school year to get our
LEP students to feel comfortable enough to laugh and joke and join in. In
fact, it may even take longer, depending on the teacher and students.
On my last CLAD videotape (HURRAY... the last of 120 hours of four graduate
courses!), a Lao girl described what her first year in an American school
was like for her. She was in first grade, spoke no English, and was the
only Lao speaker at her school. She was totally frightened by the holiday
celebrations in school. Children dressing up as monsters in October, a big,
rotund man in a red suit in December wanting her to sit on his lap, candy
and hugs in February for no reason she could figure out, pinches and bruises
in March, again for no reason she could figure out, and then, that summer
on
July 4th, "bombs" bursting in air and thinking war had come to
this country, like her home country.
She said it took until third grade for her to feel comfortable in this foreign
environment, and to gain enough English to be able to communicate.
Food for thought, isn't it? This week, finishing my last 30 hours of the
CLAD requirement, has been invaluable. Instead of all theory about second
language acquisition and how to teach second language learners, this last
course was all about the different nationalities and cultures of our non-English
speaking students. There were guest speakers who told their stories of emigration,
some happy, but more often than not, sad, since many were fleeing repressive
regimes. Americans have no idea how good we have it!
- Joanne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis challenged readers to recognize the importance of assessing both
the cognitive and affective domains of learning.
Yes it is an interesting phenomenon - bean counters that is.
I suppose my point in terms of participation is that it is part of the holistic
evaluation - affective domain assessment for each subject area. You don't
have holistic evaluation unless you cover the field for each subject discrete.
But at the same time I recognize there are other imperatives, which require
suitable weighting.
It follows that if you degrade this aspect - the affective domain, it is
important that our clients know that we as teachers value it very highly.
And bean counters need to be told, in no uncertain terms, the consequences
of their blinkered beliefs.
It is also important to communicate that the very work ethics that are valued
in societies such as ours, are being rejected by the bean counters. What
is breath taking is that these bean counters then wonder what's wrong with
our students. Or worse what's wrong with our ability as teachers.
There are a number of cultures that have different responses to western
learning delivery. These are just additional challenges for teachers to
address in their holistic evaluations or teaching methodologies. It is my
experience that Asian or other cultures will be socialized not so much by
me but by their peers in middle school. If they rely on me only then the
process might be slower.
- Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deb added to Dennis' thoughts.
Ahhhh- a very thoughtful response... and you are so correct in the inclusion
of all --- the discreet and the blatant... and if we approach education
in such a manner, then we do just that. It is possible to educate every
nuance within the standards-- but it is again the question of the individual
who evaluates the educating-- if that individual is a strictly logical,
sequential, tunnel vision sort, he or she will never see beyond the pale.
It is important to make sure that as teachers we get beyond the logical,
tunnel vision types, because learning -- or rather Einstein like knowledge,
is only discovered or invented when students and teachers allow quantum
leap thinking and exploration ... Thanks for jumpstarting my own thinking.
- Deb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don described his method of grading and the thinking behind it.
I haven't read all the emails on the participation closely, because
I have so many emails, that I don't have time to read them all carefully,
but I'd like to share my thoughts on the topic as I see it.
I grade attitude, cooperation, treating others with respect, and participation
in my theatre classes. I tell the students that in order to be successful
in this class all students need to feel comfortable. In theatre class we
often are dealing with emotions, and one needs to feel free enough to express
his/her emotions, and creating can be uncomfortable. I also tell them to
create a successful production one must treat all others with respect, and
work to get along. Therefore part of their evaluation is based on how they
treat others.
I need to be extra careful with the participation thing. Some students might
seem to have a bad attitude when it comes to participating in theatre class,
however those students might just feel uncomfortable with "performing"
in front others. I need to be sensitive to that.
In the other subjects I teach I do not grade on participation or attitude.
I feel we should grade on the curriculum. (Often those with bad attitudes
don't work very hard in class, hence their grade reflects that.)
- Don
----------------------------------------------------------------------
John warned educators of the dangers of watering down grading expectations.
While I would never take issue with the experts about what needs to
be taken into account in "grading" a student's performance, I
will say that I have observed and interviewed in many schools where teachers
were masking achievement gaps by awarding points for effort, participation,
etc. If you can meet Chris' standard stated above, great. But schools need
to take great care that they are not simply institutionalizing low expectations
by awarding enough "effort points" to keep the passing rates at
acceptable levels.
- John
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne responded to John's posting.
I agree with your concerns, John. I also wonder - would I be giving
students an accurate picture of the world of work if I gave them the impression
that - even if they did not do their job well - as long as they were pleasant,
got to work on time, and tried hard everything would be okay? In most workplaces,
there comes a point at which you have to do the work.
I really believe that we should recognize and reward students for good behavior.
I'm just not convinced that a (eg.) science grade would have much meaning
to anyone looking at it unless that grade represents student knowledge and
skills in science. Other types of grades and rewards can be used for important
personal qualities that students need. (Turning in work, being prepared
for class - those things naturally affect the grades anyway because they
affect student work quality.)
And finally - what are we really teaching kids when we give them points
for a good attitude, having supplies, or conducting themselves properly
in class? (Hmmmm -
it just might not be what we intend them to learn.)
Just a few more provoking (notice I didn't say provocative) thoughts! :-))
Fire away!
- Anne
----------------------------------------------------------------------
John's comments caused Lori to think.
For some it is the difference between a C and a D or a D and an F. I
find that by having the things they need and being ready every day most
of the work is in and completed and they really are earning their grades.
BUT there are a few who fall into this trap you are pointing out John.
It is NOT a ploy on my part to keep my grades acceptable, it was my way
of getting them into class on time with the necessary materials to work
in my class. I had never thought of it that way and no one at my school
had mentioned it either or I probably would have stopped the practice. Every
time I put in the Participation points now I am going to wonder about how
they are working. . .
- Lori
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Susie shared some thoughts.
I have followed this thread concerning participation grades with interest.
I know I have been told that we "legally" could not include any
type of "behavior" component in an academic grade. Hmm. I also
think Michelle's idea of comparing test scores to report card grades would
yield some fascinating, yet scary and thought provoking results.
On a side note, I just read a fascinating article on kids (and adults) and
instant messaging in the April Yahoo Internet Life magazine. I loved Family
PC magazine-it was written at a level even I could understand-so of course,
it folded. We now get YIL instead, and I have learned so much from just
a few articles. It's not as much fluff as I expected. You can access much
of the content for free online at:
http://www.yil.com
The IM article is currently on the title page, but I expect it may be moved
once the May issue is added.
They have many useful links accessed more directly and easily than ever.
- Susie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deb elaborated on thoughts concerning participation grades.
I have never "given" participation points unless the grade was
participation ... like a debate or a speech... and then it had a rubric
attached to it. I have gone so far-- and this is the absolute truth, of
bumping a girl one point to push her grade from a 69% failing to a 70--
passing for the year because she was on time, did all of the work to her
best ability, listened, supported the learning of others, and in general
was an asset to the class. The same year and in the same class, I did not
give a kid who had the same grade, 69%, a bump up because he came late,
never had materials, was rude and crude to others, was thrown out with referrals
more than three times ( I never --almost never) write referrals, and he
intimidated his classmates and corrupted the learning atmosphere in general.
I told both kids straight up what their academic averages were score why
the report card grades for the year were different. I explained that as
a teacher I could never take a kid's grade down, but could bump it up if
I chose (Ironically, in the "school that forbid original thought"
where my daughter was ensconced for the ninth grade, her teacher lowered
her grade from an A to a B because she suggested they act out the worksheets
he was piling on-- the ones on job interviewing.)
Neither the roof nor the sky fell in on me, so in that instance-I increased
a grade by a percentage point to push a kid over the edge because I felt
that the kid did learn something other than the average of the numbers reflected
on tests and essays.
PS: By the way (God forgive me for coach bashing), this teacher of my daughter's
taught by assigning an enormous load of in-class worksheets to be done and
then randomly decided on each Friday which would be handed in for grades.
Further, his administration allowed him to take her a whole letter grade
down for "being off the wall by asking for an alternative mode of instruction
to worksheet completion."
- Deb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lori felt that participation help to motivate difficult groups of students.
For my students it might make the difference of one grade like a B to
an A but rarely if ever more. I have just found it an easy way to get the
kids into class on time and ready for the lesson. It started with a particularly
difficult group of 8th graders after lunch three years ago. Nothing made
these kids want to come in from lunch break on time or with books but when
I implemented the point system taking them away if they were not there,
for some reason it worked, I had fewer tardy slips to fill out and more
kids were getting their work in on time because they had their books in
class. I have just kept with it and the kids still are in and ready to go
when the bell rings.
- Lori
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Darby introduced herself and explained her daily grading system.
I am relatively new to this list. I have jumped in a few times but thought
I should introduce myself. I am a 20+ year teacher at a Pre K-8th community
school of about 700 in NH. I teach Family
Consumer Science to the 6th-8th grades and a Social Studies Class in 7th
grade. I am also finishing the last class of my Masters Program in Ed. I
am still excited and challenged in this wonderful profession- and have found
this list serve to be both helpful and stimulating. Many thanks to all of
you.
I have for several years used a daily grading method called "Daily
work Ethics" with my 7th and 8th graders. I use these mostly when we
are working on long-term projects as a way of helping students to stay aware
of how each day is going. At the beginning of the term we spend time talking
about what a work ethic is. We ask people in the work force, i.e. parents,
what work ethic is expected of them. We hash this over and discuss the fact
that your work ethic is always going to be judged by someone; so self-awareness
is an important monitoring factor.
The students are responsible for turning in a daily work ethic slip on which
they give themselves between 1and 5 points for that day. If there is time
they have to write a few words of justification. I enter these daily and
if I disagree I speak to the student and we discuss the score they gave
themselves. I find that the students are really quite honest in their assessment
most of the time. It is also their responsibility to turn them in at the
end of class.
While I think of it I have a question about the survey, which was just reprinted.
Could someone briefly tell me how the results were shared with the class?
I must have missed that information and have not been able to find it.
Again many thanks to all of you -
- Darby
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carole presented a thought-provoking point of view.
It's been a busy time and I am slow in reading the different postings.
I am a quiet and reserved person, even more so when growing up. I did volunteer
info when I felt safe. I married at 18, into a family of 6 boys and, finally,
the girl. What a whirlwind of a household when spouses, nieces and nephews
gathered! I remember my mother-in-law told me not to worry; I would eventually
talk a lot when I knew people better. I got the message that the amount
I conversed equated to my self-worth. I enjoy just sitting and listening
at times, and do not always have to speak in a conversation. I am an advocate
of allowing people to be themselves, and not what other people think they
should be.
It is okay to be quite or shy. Half of the population is introverted. I
have strived to be a bit more outgoing, but realize I will never be a public
speaker or the life of the party. That is okay with me. I want students
to volunteer because they want to share with the class. I can also meet
one-on-one to get answers from them. That works also.
- Carole
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Melba explained the grading system from her school district.
At my school district, the students' grades are based only on academics.
Grading students on participation requires some sort of documentation. The
performing arts classes do grade on participation because of the nature
of their courses, but they must also be careful that the performances are
co-curricular and not extra-curricular. As for conduct/behavior, we are
not allowed to include that aspect with the kids' academics. We do give
conduct grades which are satisfactory, needs improvement, or unsatisfactory.
The teachers have the discretion to arrive at those grades as they see fit,
but again, they must have documentation. At my school, if a parent has not
been included in their child's problems with behavior, then the teacher
may not award anything less than satisfactory. This assures that the teacher
has done all that is possible to help the student and that the parent has
been informed and hopefully involved in the child's disciplinary problems.
If you don't at least make that phone call, then how do you hope to get
the kiddo to behave? The parent is always your first line of defense.
- Melba
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Naomi responded to the comment that turning in work and being prepared
for class naturally affects grades because they affect work quality.
That is just the point. But many of our students still need to develop
such skills. Giving credit for participation lays the groundwork for academic
success. I think that people on the list work in a wide variety of situations.
We have classes of 15 students with a great deal of home support. We have
classes of 35 students in which several kids do not have that kind of support.
If our students learn to be responsible, to be prepared, to participate
in class, then we have made a difference in their lives.
- Naomi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don related to Carole's thoughts and explained how he evaluated drama
students.
Oh, sweet Carole. You and I are cut from the same fabric. I too am very
introverted. I am not a social animal by any means. I am a totally different
person when I get on stage however. I use the stage to become extroverted.
Over the years I have shocked many people when they've seen me perform for
the very first time. (You ought to see my Santa. I come alive when I don
the suit! I've had many people tell me that I am the best Santa they've
ever seen. Because I love and respect children so much I take the job -
I mean, joy of playing Santa very seriously. But that's a different story.)
I like you, believe that it's okay to be shy, and it's important for us
to allow kids to be who they are. I have been reading this subject with
great interest, and for me the bottom line is this, I don't think a student's
grade should reflect, participation, attitude, or behavior unless the subject
requires those for academic growth in that area. The student's grade should
reflect how much growth he/she has gained in the particular subject. Period.
Like I stated earlier I do evaluate students on the above traits in my theatre
class, because I feel they are important to the subject. However, I do believe
that maybe attitude, responsibility, and behavior can be evaluated separately,
and be recorded as a separate grade (or something). We did that when I taught
elementary school. Why can't it be done in middle school? It's not done
in my district. (Maybe I will suggest that p; oooo the "old-timers-who-don't-like-change"
wouldn't like that a bit!) I think if we are serious about brain-based learning,
and we try to incorporate the concepts into our daily teaching then many
of the behavior problems and lack of responsibility concerns will lessen
(or am I just kidding myself?)
(Chris Toy - You sound like an awesome principal! I like your website. I
work with a great principal. I am very lucky. He is very supportive of the
arts, and knows how important they are to education.)
- Don
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION
BY JOINING THE MIDDLEWEB
LISTSERV.
MEMBERS CAN POST A MESSAGE TO:
middleweblist@sreb.org
BACK
to the MiddleWeb Listserv Conversations Index