Reflecting on the benefits that listservs offer educators, Ellen wondered
how this communication tool might be used with students.
I had the coolest idea during my class this evening...what if we were
able to set up listservs to use with our classrooms? I get so much from
this listserv, and I wonder if our kids would respond to a format like this
one.
Has anyone out there done this? If so, HOW? I am excited about the idea
of trying to do this. My kids responded so well to our gallery walk about
the novel we are reading where they had to write their responses, and I
am thinking they would be even more amenable to writing if they could use
the computer.
- Ellen
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Lori commented on the benefits of using technology to help students think
and write.
Ellen, I agree totally. Not sure how it would have to work or if it would
at all but I know when my students use the computers they write more and
it is usually better thought out too.
- Lori
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Bill pointed readers to a free web site that provides a place for students
and parents to interact electronically.
What a great idea! I've used chat rooms a lot, and we have several email-based
exchanges going, but I never thought of a listserv.
I've set up some listservs for Pine Cobble using coollist, which is free
and relatively easy to use. We plan to use grade-level groups more fully
next year for teachers and parents to interact electronically. For student
use... beyond general discussions, I could see opportunities for peer-editing,
joint story writing, and more. The URL is:
http://www.coollist.com
As far as discipline goes, beyond normal school-type responses, you do have
the right to suspend or dismiss anyone from the list as the list owner.
You may also change settings so you have to approve messages before they
are distributed if you so prefer.
- Bill
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Lise shared how her students made use of a listserv-like tool.
I use myclass.net to post lesson
plans.
The kids get their own id and email address when they sign up. There is
a place where they can set up listserv-like areas. When I taught an Ancient
Civilizations unit, the kids were grouped by civilization. They set up their
own little groups to share resources and notes and cool stuff they found
about their civilization.
I had total control and could monitor their discussions and they knew it.
They stayed focused on the task and it was wonderful to see them use the
technology as a communication tool.
- Lise
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Mary Anne described a software program used at her school.
We use an incredible piece of software called "Classworks."
It is large and very expensive (about $25,000). It is a combination of several
computer-assisted instruction programs linked together. One of the features
of the program is that the students have their own email accounts set up
like a listserve with the teachers monitoring what is going on. Literally,
the whole school has access to every note sent. (There is a feature that
allows teacher to talk privately--although no one uses it they use the regular
email system.)
The kids enjoyed using it at first, but the novelty wore off and very few
students use it now--although some classes used it to do end of the year
surveys!
- Mary Anne
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Bill provided additional information.
A lot of schools use "FirstClass" to give students and faculty
email accounts, and it's much, much less than $25,000 (though doesn't have
computer-assisted learning features). Every school on the ISED-L listserv,
which uses the program, always recommends it highly whenever a new school
asks for advice.
Stoneleigh-Burnham has owned it for five years now, and the kids use it
heavily. The software includes a customizable bulletin board system and
a chat feature, meaning it would combine on one Intranet all the functions
we've been discussing in this thread.
Like with Coollist, you can set permissions so teachers have to approve
postings if that is a concern. The license does allow kids to take home
the software and install it on home computers if they have an Internet connection.
Of course, anything web-based is also accessible to any kid with a home
computer and Internet connection, and often free (for the moment). That
is no small consideration.
- Bill
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Eileen, who is both a middle grades teacher and a web consultant, commented
on the importance of moderating student listservs.
Passport to Knowledge
has used student listservs with some of the collaborative projects we've
conducted. We started the projects with teachers and students brainstorming
how the project would be conducted. The lists were also used to post ideas
and data and conclusions once the projects got underway. It has been a couple
of years since we've used this format, so in many cases the teachers may
have posted most of the messages for the students--it was probably before
the majority of the teachers had classroom connections.
I would think to have this work there would need to be some direction. Depending
on how the list would be set up you might also want the list to be moderated
so that the messages do not go directly to the list, thus making sure inappropriate
messages do not get through to everyone.
I'm not referring to simply inappropriate language, but you can also have
situations where students do not understand the cultural differences around
not only the US, but also other countries, if the list expands to classrooms
in other countries, and thus could send messages with the wrong tone that
could be misunderstood and be found offensive.
Also I would make sure that attachments are not allowed through to the list.
Students are not always as careful as we are to make sure they don't open
attachments that contain viruses. I've lost count of how many messages I've
received from students from infected computers--even my own students have
sent them. Some opened them on purpose to see what they would do to their
computers.
Another thing to watch out for is that the list does not become a place
where students can have their homework questions answered easily with no
work on their part.
Please don't take this to mean that I don't think this will work. I'm definitely
for trying to do something with students. My first collaborative project
was a weather project 7 years ago. My husband had to send in my registration
because I didn't know how to use e-mail yet. Our phone line to the computer
in the school library was connected the Friday before the project began.
On the other hand my students talked about weather with students in Denmark
and Australia as well as with students around the US. We had a school in
Puerto Rico where the teacher could barely speak English. I had a team of
students all set to work with the Spanish teacher to allow us to communicate
with them. Unfortunately their Internet connection went down just before
the project began.
One of the most memorable parts of the project was when the students in
the Outback of Australia asked my students what Nintendo was. They were
in shock and you should have seen them writing their answer in terms the
students in Australia could understand. Then my students had to ask them
what some of the words they were using in their messages meant. I was hooked
and have been convinced ever since that this is one of the best ways to
bring excitement into my classroom and open my students to opportunities
I had never thought possible before.
- Eileen
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Anne made an interesting suggestion.
Setting up a listserv is no easy job, Ellen p; what with the constant
monitoring that would be needed with a group of early adolescents. Wonder
if John would add a MiddleSchoolers listserv to the MiddleWeb site. (Evil
grin . . . was that loud bump I heard you passing out in the floor, John?)
- Anne
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Ellen responded to Anne's comments.
Someone in my class gave me an idea, and I'd kind of like to run it
by you all. They suggested setting something up through Yahoo Groups. Just
to see how it looked and what kind of controls you could set, I signed up
for one.
Basically, I can control who can sign on and keep the group private. There
is a "group address" where mail is sent. I must approve anyone
who signs on. If I had a list of email addresses--(we could use the ones
provided by the district)--then I could hold children accountable for any
inappropriate content.
The more I have thought about this, the more I like it. Imagine a homeroom
(or team wide) group where kids could email to request help with assignments,
get missing homework, or collaborate on projects. If it was set up correctly
with lots of input from the teacher about expectations for behavior, I think
it would be fabulous. I see it as a way to keep conversations going, just
another way for kids to make meaning. It seems safer somehow to some kids
to share their ideas like this....
So, what do you all think? I might try it with my summer school group to
see how it goes. I haven't been this excited in a LONG time!
But John, just in case you are oh-so-eager to host a middle school kids
list, go right ahead. You seem brave... ;-)
- Ellen
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Melba agreed with Ellen's idea.
Ellen, I love your idea! It is already being done with the e-pen pals
isn't it? Anyway, this simple mind thinks it's great!
- Melba
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Deborah asked a question.
Could it be done on a web site that they visit? Our kids cannot email
anyone or thing, but I think they can visit web sites and leave comments---
I think.
- Deborah
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Bill responded to Deborah's question.
That could work... I'm presuming that situation is due to in-school
rules, so my first reaction was, couldn't they email from home? I was thinking
of using listservs more as a vehicle for homework and other out-of-class
communication. I suppose I am lucky in that every one of my students has
Internet access, and probably not everything on the list can say that.
In class, at any rate, I would think a chat room would be more what they
need. You can set up easy to use free chat rooms at:
http://www.epals.com
- Bill
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Marsha shared her experience using bulletin boards.
I have not used real list serves, but I have used bulletin boards. Students
having their own email account were my hurdle for list serves. But bulletin
boards have worked wonderfully in my district. We started introducing them
this past fall and I can't tell you how many teachers have just taken off
with them There are rave reviews from students, parents and teachers alike.
We have used QuickTopic (www.quicktopic.com)
because it's easy and free. I'm sure there are others, but this is very
reliable. It also allows a teacher to set up multiple boards and monitor
them from one master account and it allows daily digest to be delivered
via email or email every message or email no messages. Parents have enjoyed
"subscribing" to the digested version so they can read a daily
summary of what we're up to without having to go to the bulletin board itself.
So what have we done?
Well, some of our 8th grade teachers use it for discussing a book, story
or novel. Usually they set up one QT board for each book. It keeps things
separated (sort of like a thread) and fairly organized. We have used it
to discuss current events topics- the teacher sets the topic and everyone
(parents and students) gave input. We used it to toss around National History
topics and get feedback on the worthiness of topics- we've used it to build
a class hypothesis and then design the experiment. etc.
Our teachers have used QT boards to do so much. All 18 elementary schools
have a computer para. They are fairly isolated, being the only computer
type in their building, and really needed a way to talk to each other about
administrative and lesson ideas.
Wow! Hundreds of messages back and forth. Similarly the Foreign Language
teachers have been able to make connections to each other to discuss vertical
articulation of materials (videos and timing of units) within feeder systems
and between the same levels in different buildings. Likewise the Special
Ed folks have used it as we have implemented a new IEP writing software
to debug the program and also for tips/tricks on using it. We have used
in to mentor our first/second year teacher cadre. Three moderators have
helped the 50 or so "newbies" with a broad range of questions
throughout the year. We also use it with our technology staff development
classes. We email article links to class participants. Then we've used QT
to discuss the article prior to class.
As you can tell, we love QT and the bulletin board concept. It just works
so that we can share ideas among our staff, which is spread out in almost
50 buildings --- 8 of which are MS.
- Marsha Ratzel
[Editor's note: Read
Marsha's weekly diary about technology integration in the classroom.]
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Joanne suggested that student listservs might offer opportunities for
cautious students to share their ideas.
I'm with you, Ellen. I also see it as an opportunity for the quiet students
to have input or ask questions without being intimidated or too shy to speak
up in class. And I'll bet since we'd be working in the students' "world".....
that of computers and technology, we'd get more interest from them. One
can hope, anyway.
- Joanne
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Marsha added to Joanne's comments.
This is exactly what happened when we used it to discuss books. A 7th
grader, whose voice we had only heard once or twice during the year, came
up to us after the first time on the electronic bulletin board. She told
us it was the best class ever. She was able to give her vision without being
drowned out by the enthusiastic answerers...that class has one real "monopolizer"
of conversation. Throughout the year, she has made such a difference in
our book talks and I'm glad we didn't miss the opportunity to hear what
she has to say.
It also makes it easier for the kids to ignore those random comments that
are usually meant to make everyone else laugh. They just seem to ignore
those and go on. And the comment doesn't disrupt the entire flow of conversation.
We have also used a bulletin board while we were in the same room. We signed
up to use a lab and everyone had his or her own computer to use. They had
to remain silent and just type. It drove them crazy at first. But then they
loved it because they focused on reading what everyone else had to say and
responding. So much more than when we were in the traditional class discussion
mode. There wasn't much lag between them posting and it appearing on the
bulletin board.
- Marsha